Prog 1394 - Public Enemy!

[Satanist]

Ok Chaps here I go...

Cover:V.Dark...I like it!

Dredd:I love the way this ones panning out

Savage:I'd high hopes for this one due to the artwork but now I couldnt give a funk!

A.H.A.B: Still enjoying this even though it appears to have lost it somewhere in the middle

Low Life: Love this

Chopper: Extremely disappointing.It goes nowhere and reads like a massive summer special tale.

7.34 out of 10

[Al_Ewing]

I was kind of hoping Chopper would end up doing his thing in the Meg. Oh well - he's not looked this good since Cam Kennedy, so that was nice.

[Tom F]

I think there's a spanner in the printing works. I don't think Elson is all that happy about the way AHAB has been turning out the past month either.

[Tiplodocus]

Nigel,

it's nice to have feedback on feedback. ANd yes, you did cover all of the points in a positive manner - it's just me being a bit picky.

One specific point I was thinking about was the thing about Izzie's kid.  Now I was thinking that this sub-plot was only introduced because you needed a reason to keep Izzie on the Elysium - pretty short story if she just hops off and we never see what happens after she left*

Anyway, you made the valid point that she was disguising her true motives from her shipmates.  Why does that mean she has to disguise them from the reader?  Wouldn't there be some interestingly tense situations could be had from us knowing that she's trying to keep this secret from her shipmates?  As I am a perspiring writer, I'd be keen to get a bit more information on your thought processes for stuff like this.

I think my "poorly motivated (characters)" thought came from this child thing, the moronic bloke that conveniently hands over all of the command codes to A.H.A.B. and A.H.A.B's actions when he wipes out the rest of his crew, burns his memories into the robot etc.  I know you said it was a hunter obsession thing but I just didn't buy it (this shouldn't bother you too much as everyone else seemsto think you've created a top villain, here).  His actions, to me, seemed TOO extreme for a hunter obsessed with a beast?

Oh and again, it was my poorly worded criticism about the "BIG questions". Of course your story asks a couple - I just felt that, for me, the cackling madman has overshadowed them.

And hey - you have got me thinking about the strip long after I've read it so that's a big positive.  A couple of the shock moments have also been very effective (A.H.A.B killing the captain and then the rest of the command crew)


OH and has anyone else checked out that advert on the back page. How many times does it say NEON EVANGALIS DIRECTORS CUT (or whatever)? ABout fifty! That's another ad designer working hard for his money.


MOBY DICK
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P

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*(though If I recall, this didn't stop Melville using Ishmael as a narrator for the destruction of the Pequod even though he couldn't possibly have seen it).

[LARF]

I think it would be a good idea to force a team up with Dredd and Chopper having to work together... any ideas how it could be done, I was thining along the lines of the next Supersurf, Chopper being forced in to having to work with Justice Dept., JD needs Chopper to infiltrate a 'Point Break' style band of Sky Surfer criminals... or it's a conscience type scenario where the end goal is beneficial to chopper's beliefs as well as JD's upholding of the Law? What do you reckon?

[Nigel Kitching]

?it's nice to have feedback on feedback. ANd yes, you did cover all of the points in a positive manner - it's just me being a bit picky. ?

I have no problem with picky.

?One specific point I was thinking about was the thing about Izzie's kid. Now I was thinking that this sub-plot was only introduced because you needed a reason to keep Izzie on the Elysium - pretty short story if she just hops off and we never see what happens after she left*?

Anyway, you made the valid point that she was disguising her true motives from her shipmates. Why does that mean she has to disguise them from the reader? Wouldn't there be some interestingly tense situations could be had from us knowing that she's trying to keep this secret from her shipmates? As I am a perspiring writer, I'd be keen to get a bit more information on your thought processes for stuff like this.?

Okay, this is a question of how and when information on a character is revealed to the reader. A couple of people have said the matter of Izzie?s child came up very suddenly and without warning ? I don?t really think that is entirely fair. When we first see her her face markings obviously signify something. We then learn that she was once married to one of those aliens and we also find out that her feeling towards the race are pretty negative. The business with Tashtego also gives us a clue as to the alien race?s attitude to their women. It?s only after all this is established that the matter of the abducted child turns up. So this plot wasn?t just introduced on the spur of the moment it was planned from the beginning. I could have clued in the reader about this earlier but I decided not to. One of the things I try to do in my writing is to not leave too many dangling plot threads hanging around. So I?ll often wait until certain threads have run their course before bring up new business. So Izzie?s child is introduced after AHAB has taken control of the ship.

?I think my "poorly motivated (characters)" thought came from this child thing, the moronic bloke that conveniently hands over all of the command codes to A.H.A.B.?

?Conveniently? is a little unfair, I think. Spence was clearly manipulated by AHAB into giving him the command position. Spence was stupid but I?ve worked for people who were stupid before. There?s a certain kind of person who achieves authority but is actually an incompetent manager (academics and politicians spring to mind) these people are inclined to make the most astonishingly bad decisions ? particularly if they are out of their depth and know it. This makes a certain arrogant type defensive and not inclined to ask for help.

? and A.H.A.B's actions when he wipes out the rest of his crew, burns his memories into the robot etc. I know you said it was a hunter obsession thing?

No, that was a ?survive at any costs? thing. This all kicked off when Cornelius realized he didn?t have long to live. He was willing to sacrifice everyone else as long as he survived. This is nothing to do with the hunting of the Kohenyu, it?s to do with what lengths Cornelius will go to to survive.

? but I just didn't buy it (this shouldn't bother you too much as everyone else seemsto think you've created a top villain, here). His actions, to me, seemed TOO extreme for a hunter obsessed with a beast? ?

But on the matter of Cornelius hunting the Kohenyu right at the start of the story. This hunter business came from research into whaling. Not in depth research just enough to give me a feel. But anyway, there were plenty of examples of whaling ships that went out and didn?t ever come back. A lot were crushed by ice but many lives were also certainly lost during a hunt. One example I did find was a case where two harpoon boats went out from the main ship to kill a Sperm Whale. The whale smashed one killing some of the crew but the second boat carried on the attack regardless of the danger. So I really don?t have any difficulty understanding AHAB (or Cornelius as he then was) and his determination to kill the Kohenyu. I just quickly turned up this from Google:

?WHALING SHIPS OF WHITBY,  1753-1837

A total of 58 ships sailed during this period. Seventeen ships were lost. ?

Those are not great odds but the profits were so considerable that everyone must have thought it worth the risk. Obviously these ships didn?t just sail once out so it?s not quite as bad as it looks?

?Oh and again, it was my poorly worded criticism about the "BIG questions". Of course your story asks a couple - I just felt that, for me, the cackling madman has overshadowed them. ?

I don?t get this ?cackling madman? stuff. AHAB laughed once ? not at some nefarious scheme or at the point where he committed some terrible act. The only time AHAB laughed was when he reacted to Queequeg?s spirituality. He was sneering at Queequeg?s beliefs. AHAB has come back from the dead (in a sense) but he has no faith.

?And hey - you have got me thinking about the strip long after I've read it so that's a big positive. A couple of the shock moments have also been very effective (A.H.A.B killing the captain and then the rest of the command crew) ?

Thanks. I do think that there is plenty of depth in AHAB (obviously I would, wouldn?t I?) but it?s not flagged up with exposition or characters bearing their souls. I?ve tried to have characters be revealed through what they do not what they say about themselves. In the early part of the story AHAB was clearly a bastard but he never actually said anything menacing ? he was actually very civil.

Nigel

[House of Usher]

I read Prog 1394 last night, and I am still of the opinion that 2000ad is looking very good at the moment.

Judge Dredd (Terror) is excelent. I don't know why the bomber had to jeopardise himself and his terror organisation by trying to meet up with his fellow suspect, but there's always one, isn't there?

Savage is still good, though perhaps not as good as the week before. It hadn't even occurred to me that Savage's sadistic gloating over the Volgan helicopter crew made him less of a sympathetic character until I saw it discussed here. Admittedly I hadn't seen him as a sympathetic character from the beginning, but I still didn't see his behaviour as outstandingly unreasonable.

Dirty Frank put his finger on the thing that marred an otherwise excellent episode of Savage for me: "the worst offender this week has to be Noddy going on about his "vital fluids". "

(admittedly, there's also the danger of potential new readers being put off by the funking swearwords and mistaking 2000ad for a kids' comic or otherwise something badly written, but I've already got used to it.)

Low Life, Chopper and AHAB were all fine.

One thing I will say about AHAB though, is that a lot of the characters seem to have an almost philosophical (interested, not disinterested) attitude of 'let's just stick around and see what happens'. Like when Indiana Jones gave himself up so he could see what happened when the Nazis opened the Ark.

[Conexus]

You just mentioning vital fluids has reminded me of Dr. Stranglove, or how I learnt to stop worrying and love the bomb- people who've seen it will know why

[Will I. Cooling]

But he's a nasty homphobe! Surely even when old blightly's being rapped and pillage we don't just forget the progress we've made in the field of gay rights...

Okay maybe we do.

Personally thought the Prog was ever excellent with all five stories being near enough on top form, Chopper probably the weakest but much, much improved on previous eps with the twist well delievered and the art finally seeming to gell with the character. Still not great but you know a prog's good when a story of that quality is the weakest.

Also check out 411mania on Tuesday as my American submission editor who I managed to persuade to subscribe to 2000AD and the Meg is doing his first review of 2000AD. Should be interesting...

Will

[Bico]

Only just bought this, but:

Dredd: about time we had some more insight to Dredd's right-wing rationale.  Recent stories that had something to say about the character centered on the man himself, his family, etc, so it's good to finally see his views on terrorism get an outing.  It looks like he might be the anti-hero for this one, too.  The high point of the issue.

Savage: I'm not entirely convinced by the whole Mills/homophobe thing.  The references are there, I suppose, but you could just as soon argue that Rennie or Wagner are ranting hetrophobes because hetro men do bad things in their stories.  Certainly, there are recurring elements in Mills' work, but no-one's accusing, say, Garth Ennis of being a misogynist because his female characters all seem to distrust men, or that Robbie Morrison is a homophobe because of his 'bums to the wall' humour in Nikolai Dante, Savage is a cultural throwback to when such unsavoury types were condsidered heroes, a slope-headed thug who commits violent acts out of sadism, not heroism (and don't forget that in most westerns, the hero is usually from the American south, and more often than not fought for the south in the war.  The casual racism is something I've always found distasteful about cowboy movies).  I can only take 'Savage' on its own merits, and so far, I'm enjoying it.  Adlard's art is coming on well from his Armitage days, too.  The chopper crash was enjoyably spectacular.  The old 'Invasion' stories were more eventful, though.  I do miss that.

Low life: Good turnout for this episode.  I'm distracted by that lovely splash panel on the last page, mind. Nice.  My only complaint is the same complaint that I have of Frank Millar's 'Sin City', a one-off story is fine, but the same thing over and over again wears thin pretty quick.  I'm not sure it'll sustain my interest if every story is just going to be the whole noir thing.  Criminal types might be fascinating as character studies, but they make uninteresting heroes in the long run.

A.H.A.B.- It's been okay so far, I don't know why so many people have an issue with it.  I haven't had any trouble following it, and all the characters are pretty straightforward.  Elson's colours seem a bit murky, though.  Not my favourite strip.

Chopper:  Was that it?  Is it over?  I'm a bit disappointed by this one, as it reminded me of those lousy non-Wagner Choppers from way back, particularly that one where he went to Japan/Hondo City (and I genuinely FORGET what that one was about, so it MUST have been great).  It's probably a good story in its own right, but Wagner on Chopper is a pretty impeccable pedigree for old-timers like myself, and I can't help but feel disappointed.  Wagner might have better things in store for the character, but that doesn't excuse a poor outing for one of my favourite Dredd foils.  I haven't been this let down by a John Wagner script since Balls Brothers.

Tyranny Rex next issue, you say?  Hmmmm...

Good issue, overall.  Shame about Chopper.

[Oddboy]

Nigel,

Just wanted to say Thanks! for the replies you've been giving to Tips... I don't agree with most of his critique on AHAB, but your answers have giving me a further insight into the story.  Without Tip's complaints, we'd not have got these DVD Extras!

Odders.

[Nigel Kitching]

Thanks for that.

But, of course, for me AHAB is endlessly fascinating and it?s great to have this opportunity to talk about it.

Those nine weeks sure went by quickly?

Nigel

[Oddboy]

O is it the final part this week? Hmpf! Don't want it to end!

*sob*

It's been good, and the Elson artwork really suited it, freaky spacemonstertastic!

[Tom F]

We should petition 2000AD for more Kitching strips ;)