So here we are, after 79 votes and 126 characters falling by the wayside it all comes down to this.
And to be honest it couldn't be more fitting that in the final of a tourney to determine 2000ad's favourite character (who isn't Judge Dredd, 'cos ya know) that we get two such contrasting characters. A cool, stoic hero, troubled yet virtuous. A killer, yet one with the will and determination to do the right thing, whatever the personal cost. A man that yes can be full of rage, but who controls and channels that.
Against him a tyrant overlord. Killed, horribly, so many times that life means nothing to him. Driven by hate and malice he lacks control as he's rarely needs it, yet demands it of others under his rule. A true politician of our time then! All melodrama, worm faces and joy of violence.
The two perfectly encapsulate the extremes of 2000ad, but we must, MUST decide won wins between:
Johnny Alpha (Strontium Dog) - more info (https://britishcomics.fandom.com/wiki/Johnny_Alpha)
OR
Tomas de Torquemada (Nemesis the Warlock) - more info (https://britishcomics.fandom.com/wiki/Torquemada)
Two go in. One comes out. Enter the Votingdome.
Leave the name of the character you like most in a reply to this thread and I'll count up and call the winner early in the morning FRIDAY 9th OCTOBER (I'll give it an extra day cos it the final.... don't really know why).
'Rules' and what not, for what they are worth (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46921.msg1039351#msg1039351)
And there's more about the structure of the tournament to be read (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46631.0/)
Torquemada is my favourite character in any comic. The sheer glee with which he's written is evident - you can just picture the wicked grin on Uncle Pat's face as he pens the Grandmaster's latest piece of choice and oh-so-quotable dialogue. Torque brings an uncontainable energy to every scene he's in - he embodies what Werner Herzog describes as the 'bliss of evil'. He's very funny, very scary, and the countless humiliations rained upon him do nothing to diminish his menace. Suffice to say...
I'm with Torquemada!
This is a difficult one but I will go against the hero this time and vote for Torquemada
This is the toughest possible choice.
The greatest villain in 2000AD, who lest we forget isn't just "the most evil man who ever lived", but is "all the most evil men who ever lived."
Against him is the character who is probably the biggest reason why I started reading comics in the first place.
This is going to take some thought, and so I will mull it over before casting my vote.
Tomas de Torquemada
You are all wrong.
ALPHA
An iconic character. And the second best in the Prog for me, next to Dredd. A fitting not-Dredd winner.
Johnny Alpha
Quote from: Greg M. on 05 October, 2020, 06:58:16 AM
Torquemada is my favourite character in any comic. The sheer glee with which he's written is evident - you can just picture the wicked grin on Uncle Pat's face as he pens the Grandmaster's latest piece of choice and oh-so-quotable dialogue. Torque brings an uncontainable energy to every scene he's in - he embodies what Werner Herzog describes as the 'bliss of evil'. He's very funny, very scary, and the countless humiliations rained upon him do nothing to diminish his menace. Suffice to say...
I'm with Torquemada!
What he said. Johnny is an incredible character with a brilliant backstory and rich backstory, but he does have a bubble-perm. So
Torquemada for me too.
Look, before this all starts to get a bit silly, I'm putting my vote down for Johnny Alpha!
Torquemada can take all his eagle awards and shove them in his nose-hole.
Torquemada is suitably manic and over the top, but very one-note. Alpha had depth. So: Alpha.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 October, 2020, 09:14:04 AM
Johnny is an incredible character with a brilliant backstory and rich backstory,
Sometimes I hate myself.
Johnny Alpha.
I'd have to go for Alpha and there's really no hesitation for me; Torquemada is a great character but there's far less to him in terms of depth than there is with Johnny Alpha, who's been used to great effect in a wide array of settings.
It would be interesting to see a Top Ten moments for both of the characters though...
Both would involve serious facial disfigurement
Alpha.
Tomas de Torquemada
Now, I'm a sweetheart who believes that good should always triumph so I really should vote for Mr. S. Dog.
However- other than the obvious fact that he's an absolute bastard and *probably* comics' most evil villain- as well as an allegory for Hitler, Stalin, Trump, as well as his namesake, and is therefore a leeetle too close to the bone for me to vote for him with a clear conscience- I do greatly love the Ruler of Termight. Has he got any redeeming features to allow me to not feel like a complete shit if next week's headline in The Sun is "sick comic book geeks vote deranged mass murderer and fascist their favourite character of the last 43 years"?
No, he has not.
So Alpha it is.
Take that, you pointy headed nightmare.
Credo!
SBT
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 05 October, 2020, 03:31:44 PM
Now, I'm a sweetheart who believes that good should always triumph so I really should vote for Mr. S. Dog.
However- other than the obvious fact that he's an absolute bastard and *probably* comics' most evil villain- as well as an allegory for Hitler, Stalin, Trump, as well as his namesake, and is therefore a leeetle too close to the bone for me to vote for him with a clear conscience- I do greatly love the Ruler of Termight. Has he got any redeeming features to allow me to not feel like a complete shit if next week's headline in The Sun is "sick comic book geeks vote deranged mass murderer and fascist their favourite character of the last 43 years"?
No, he has not.
So Alpha it is.
Take that, you pointy headed nightmare.
Credo!
SBT
Don't forget this is the "not Dredd" tournament - so if there was such a headline it would be wrong, as it's only the 2nd favourite character. Behind Dredd, who least we forget is a mass murdering fascist. 😉
Does Torquemada have any redeeming features? Well, he seems to love his children. We're even told he genuinely loves Candida, despite virtually destroying her. As such, I don't really buy the idea that Torque's a one-note character - it's just that most of his notes are equally discordant. He has depth - beneath his strident and direct exterior is a very underhanded and manipulative interior. He even has a few oddly admirable qualities, though they're dwarfed by his monstrous ones.
Torquemada doesn't have only two backstories, like Alpha, but he has a multitude, stretching through time with his many incarnations.
As such, he's over-boiled. Also, he's pointy-hatted and, therefore, a clear and present danger to tumbling squirrels. Therefore, as a friend to squirrels, my vote must go to...
Johnny Alpha
(This, despite his tendency to upset grieving mothers, commit war crimes, get his partner killed and lose multiple wars.)
I'm going for Johnny Alpha because it was his poster I had on my wall as a kid and he has the coolest gun in 2000AD.
Torquemada.
Johnny Alpha. Hands down my favourite comic book character of all time.
Nobody else even comes close.
Except, maybe, Groo The Wanderer.
So here the are the last 24 hours of UNDT - and while I've not done a count it looks fairly close and a final burst from either might see them across the line. I'll be closing voting, counting up and announcing the winner in the morning (Friday 9th) so get any last votes in now.
VOTING AND TOURNEY CLOSED - that's all folks BUT I'm sure there's much to say.
It opened with a villainous bang. Nemesis' nemesis struck the early blows and opened up a (un)healthy lead. But then when has Johnny Alpha ever let adversity keep him down. Since when have heroes ever known when to quit. It time honoured storytelling fashion the hero might have taken the lumps to start, but they picked themselves up, rallied the votes and before you know it a Westinghouse Blaster was pointing in Tomas' face and Johnny uttered the immortal words
"Because Nemesis hates you"
and the final shot was fired.
Winner of the 2020 Ultimate Not Dredd Tourney is
JOHNNY ALPHA
[Tinselexplosioneffect] BOOM! [\Tinselexplosioneffect]
The good over come the bad
Alpha > Dredd.
I guessed from the start it would be the Dog. He wasn't my vote, but feck it; he's a worthy winner. I always preferred his more political earthbound adventures to the bizarre space ones, personally, but he's a brilliant character - you just don't get English sci-fi cowboys with a Nazi dads and Viking mates in other publications.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 October, 2020, 10:22:15 AM
you just don't get English sci-fi cowboys with a Nazi dads and Viking mates in other publications.
Well there's a tag line for the xmas prog!
Quote from: Greg M. on 05 October, 2020, 09:05:05 PM
Does Torquemada have any redeeming features? Well, he seems to love his children. We're even told he genuinely loves Candida, despite virtually destroying her. As such, I don't really buy the idea that Torque's a one-note character - it's just that most of his notes are equally discordant. He has depth - beneath his strident and direct exterior is a very underhanded and manipulative interior. He even has a few oddly admirable qualities, though they're dwarfed by his monstrous ones.
His love for Candida is a bit too abusive partner for me to count that as a positive, but I can think of another...
He might* have a pretty warped outlook on politics, but he does have the conviction of his beliefs. Rather than have his fascist empire collapse he committed suicide (and despite previous deaths, this one did stick - any posthumous appearances were by a time-travelling former self).
* does
Quote from: credo on 09 October, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 October, 2020, 10:22:15 AM
you just don't get English sci-fi cowboys with a Nazi dads and Viking mates in other publications.
Well there's a tag line for the xmas prog!
Isn't it just - GENIUS!
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 09 October, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Alpha > Dredd.
Which does beg the question... should we???*
(https://i.imgur.com/oRYvv4m.jpg)
*Which is not to say I in anyway endorse this view. In fact far from it BUT I do wonder how many other do???
The thing for me, is that given Carlos is no longer with us and it is looking like there will now be no more Strontium Dog, that is the single biggest loss to the Prog (other than losing Dredd).
I think it can tolerate the loss of just about any other strip, but no more SD leaves a massive hole.
The distinct voice for much of the strip's length means it's a very hole difficult to fill. There was nothing quite like Strontium Dog in 2000 AD, but also without Ezquerra's rugged, organic, unique visuals and Wagner's storytelling... what's the point? I mean, I'm sure other writers/artists could work on some solid Strontium Dog tales, but it'd almost certainly feel like a covers band.
Quote from: Magnetica on 09 October, 2020, 02:45:14 PM
The thing for me, is that given Carlos is no longer with us and it is looking like there will now be no more Strontium Dog, that is the single biggest loss to the Prog (other than losing Dredd).
I think it can tolerate the loss of just about any other strip, but no more SD leaves a massive hole.
I think in the xmas prog there is going to be a Johnny Alpha story; I am sure if it is going to labelled as a Strontium Dog story or not. "
Johnny Alpha has a Kreeler scientist in his sights in 'Once Upon a Time in Der Vest' by Rob Williams and Laurence Campbell"
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 October, 2020, 12:12:14 PM
Quote from: credo on 09 October, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 October, 2020, 10:22:15 AM
you just don't get English sci-fi cowboys with a Nazi dads and Viking mates in other publications.
Well there's a tag line for the xmas prog!
Isn't it just - GENIUS!
Why thank you. Shame about my grammar.
Quote from: sheridan on 09 October, 2020, 11:41:23 AM
He might* have a pretty warped outlook on politics,
I dunno... It's pretty much par for the course these days.
A disappointing but inevitable result. I dared to dream that 2000AD readers - frequent scorners of the goodie-goodie ways of US superchaps - might be a little more original in their thinking, but no, they wanted a hero to win.
Meanwhile, the tournament's one true hero has only this to say...
(https://i.imgur.com/XrLpK2H.jpg)
Quote from: Greg M. on 09 October, 2020, 08:26:01 PM
A disappointing but inevitable result. I dared to dream that 2000AD readers - frequent scorners of the goodie-goodie ways of US superchaps - might be a little more original in their thinking, but no, they wanted a hero to win.
It's fairly telling that 2000ad's version of the goodie-goodie hero kills people for money, and once tricked an enemy into mistakenly think he'd survived an assassination attempt purely to prolong his suffering before actually killing him.
That said, I voted Torquemada too. Oy-Boys - stand back and stand by.
In fairness to US comics, one of Marvel's biggest heroes is a racial supremacist who stabs his victims to death, so Johnny's about on a moral par.
And so, oddly, is Torquemada.
That's Wolverine righht... took me a while?!?
Anyway I meant to share this if anyone is interested in this type of thing the spreadsheet for the tourney
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A1UTrGivpwMSX53dPQchStXiidOA8m5HBEWo3hjJvn8/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A1UTrGivpwMSX53dPQchStXiidOA8m5HBEWo3hjJvn8/edit?usp=sharing)
Edited to add: Oh and I take no responsibility for the spelling of any viking types... even though its entirely my responsibility. Playing a Hancock.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 10 October, 2020, 11:31:12 AM
That's Wolverine righht... took me a while?!?
Yeah - the transition of the X-Men into a mutant supremacist immortal hivemind sex-cult nation has been an... interesting one.