“Truth? You can't handle the truth!”

[The Legendary Shark]

Scientists were involved, sure - but so were politicians, civil servants, businessfolk, managers, financiers, engineers, cleaners...

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Now, it's possible that this unprecedented and unique attack uncovered some unknown physics causing well-understood materials and architectural engineering conventions to act in a completely new and counter-intuitive fashion ...

This statement has neen niggling at me.

A system with simple well understood properties and initial states behaving in an unpredictable way when a new variable is introduced? That's not fucking "cartoon physics", it's Chaos Theory.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, I don't think you're being wilfully ignorant but you are displaying a degree of ignorance while using obfuscatimg language.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Also, if you don't buy the incompetence argument, then why are you skeptical of the official reports on the attack? Even if they were written by stooges, there are thousands of qualified, competent people who could disprove that alleged bullshit comprehensively.

Just askin'...

[Famous Mortimer]

Famous Mort, welcome to the Madhouse! It's not as if the US doesn't have form in basing wars on staged events; Google the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, for starters. As for governments having qualms about killing their own citizens for political and financial gain, Google Operation Gladio, for starters.

There's a slight difference between Operation Gladio and flying a plane into a building and killing three thousand people, for example. And the first Gulf of Tonkin incident had real ships, and again didn't involve killing three thousand of their own citizens.

Also, I'd rather you didn't assume I know nothing about history, thanks. A less friendly person might assume you were being rather condescending.

[The Legendary Shark]

Okay, point taken, I'll re-phrase it:
.
Two jets, similar to but different from the ones  envisaged by the original architects, impacted the Twin Towers in a way similar to but different from the impacts envisioned by the same architects. Soon after, three buildings collapsed in a way not envisioned by any architect or engineer, ever, and which has not been seen before or since. I apologise for calling it cartoon physics; maybe a better description would be localised physics.
.
Any better?
.
Chaos Theory it may be but buildings don't tend to evaporate no matter how much chaos is involved. If we did not exist on a macrosc... sorry, on a big scale, then quant... sorry, very tiny uncertainty might cause virtu... sorry, just about every molecule in the buildings to decide to turn to dust almost in unis... sorry, all at once. But we don't, so it didn't.
.
Sarcasm, sorry.
.
I would, seriously, love to know what could turn three skyscrapers to dust. I don't think two jets, no matter how lucky they are, could achieve such a thing.
.
And how was it that two jets and three tower blocks could not withstand all this chaos yet Satam al-Squami's visa survived without a singe?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satam_al-Suqami
I guess Chaos Theory allows for random coincidences like that one but still, it makes my eyes narrow.

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't know what you know, Famous Mort, I gave examples, that's all. I was recently taken to task for not citing things and now I've been taken to task for citing things. I can't win, lol! No offence intended, FM.
.
There have been cases where governments have sacrificed thousands of their own citizens, in secret, for the "greater good."

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

I would, seriously, love to know what could turn three skyscrapers to dust. I don't think two jets, no matter how lucky they are, could achieve such a thing.

Really? Because I think you would reject that explanation if it didn't fit with your World-View, no matter how comprehensive that explanation was.

[The Legendary Shark]

Why, have you got one?

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

No, and neither do you.

[The Legendary Shark]

Correct.
.
That's kinda' what I've been saying.
.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Horses and Zebras innit?

[The Legendary Shark]

Or humans and humans.

[radiator]

Can you even begin to imagine how a government might carry something like 9/11 off? The only way it'd work is some kind of Adrian Veidt supervillain plot, with all key witnesses murdered by assassins who then murdered each other. Even then it'd be entirely reliant on finding dozens - if not hundreds - of people willing to betray their country and murder thousands of their fellow citizens in cold blood. And to what end? It's pure fantasy.

[Ghost MacRoth]

I don't get why it has to be thousands.  If we are happy to accept a dozen or so with box-cutters did it.....why couldn't it be a dozen or so with box-cutters under direction from...elsewhere?  Not wanting to fan the flames here, but the idea that armatures can do it with a handful but if it was the gu'vmint it requires thousands just seems a bit daft.   

Oh, and in no way am I saying the gu'vmint did or didn't, I'm just quizzing the numbers bit.

[M.I.K.]

I don't get why it has to be thousands.  If we are happy to accept a dozen or so with box-cutters did it.....why couldn't it be a dozen or so with box-cutters under direction from...elsewhere?  Not wanting to fan the flames here, but the idea that armatures can do it with a handful but if it was the gu'vmint it requires thousands just seems a bit daft.   

Oh, and in no way am I saying the gu'vmint did or didn't, I'm just quizzing the numbers bit.

I think radiator is talking about the methods used according to some of the conspiracy theories, (and the resulting cover up), rather than them doing things in exactly the same way as the terrorists (probably) did.