Prometheus

[radiator]

The Joker always claims not to make plans and he always does- he's insane remember..?

I'm not overly familiar with the comics character, so I'll take your word for it. FWIW I never read Ledger's Joker as 'insane' - he's just utterly nihilistic. He's a sociopath, a psychopath an anarchist - but there's a logic to what he does, a desire to expose the true human nature masked by society. "When the chips are down, these people will eat each other". To me that's far more chilling and relevant than a pantomime 'Clown prince of crime' type villain.

Meticulous planning just seems so far removed from his philosophical stance. I believed in his distaste of the 'schemers', but it seemed at odds with the plot of the film.

[Richmond Clements]

The Joker always claims not to make plans and he always does- he's insane remember..?

I'm not overly familiar with the comics character, so I'll take your word for it. FWIW I never read Ledger's Joker as 'insane' - he's just utterly nihilistic. He's a sociopath, a psychopath an anarchist - but there's a logic to what he does, a desire to expose the true human nature masked by society. "When the chips are down, these people will eat each other". To me that's far more chilling and relevant than a pantomime 'Clown prince of crime' type villain.

Meticulous planning just seems so far removed from his philosophical stance. I believed in his distaste of the 'schemers', but it seemed at odds with the plot of the film.

it does seem like that, but it is consistent with the Joker! As he said in The Killing Joke and demonstrated in the movie, if he had a past, he'd like it to be multiple choice.

[I, Cosh]

Doesn't really matter if you've read any comics. Throughout the film The Joker makes a lot of untrue and blatantly contradictory statements. The origin of his smile, for instance. The not making plans spiel is entirely "consistent" with this.

[Apestrife]

--but there's a logic to what he does, a desire to expose the true human nature masked by society. "When the chips are down, these people will eat each other". To me that's far more chilling and relevant than a pantomime 'Clown prince of crime' type villain.

Yes, that sums it up for me too, about the Joker in the movie. I even think his goal in the end is a suicide by cop (in his case batman).
He got Harvey going insane and broken by breaking his belief in the system, and I think he wanted a similar thing for batman by making him break his one rule about not killing someone.

But then he also said that he's like a dog chasing cars, but not knowing what he'd do if he catched one.

[Richmond Clements]

Can't believe that people are trying to find logic and consistency in the Joker's actions! There isn't any- that's the point!

[I, Cosh]

Can't believe that people are trying to find logic and consistency in the Joker's actions! There isn't any- that's the point!

But it's consistently inconsistent.

[Apestrife]

Can't believe that people are trying to find logic and consistency in the Joker's actions! There isn't any- that's the point!

He does seem to try to prove something similar to The Killing Joke's "One bad day...", but at the same time he doesn't seem to care that much either when neither of the ferries explodes (since he'll set them off himself) and when Batman doesn't let him drop he just laughs.

Have you read Brian Azzarello and Lee Bermejo's The Joker by the way? It has a similar tricky portrayal of him, and a point of the story is the danger of rationalizing such crazy and unstoppable force/person. A real good read, and the joker looks familiar to the movie one (which I think is a coincident, since Lee's "realistic" joker design is 5 years older)

[Spikes]

Well, some people might prefer it to be Ridley's head, and not David's, but NECA has released more details of its Prometheus figure line.

[judgeblake]

Ok...what I thought of Prometheus when I went to one of the last chance screenings at my local Vue cinema;
[spoiler]The film is definately not lacking for genial concepts and sci fi imagery. Scott seems to keep the claustrophobic artificial 'grey' environment and aesthetic of the first Alien film, but contrasts this with the luscious gliding vistas of green expanses of nature. There also seems to be the need to create the horror element that was present in the first Alien film; in which case the shocks and conceptual surprises of the first film have been carbon-copied in Prometheus with effort alongside some surpringly typical horror archetypes e.g. possessed men.
To me the film was a great deal better than the terrible AVP spin-off movies, and I'm glad Prometheus casts them to the wind somewhat – and the 'cinematography', FX and directing were masterful. But the film suffers from a script that is very b-movie in places, as well as a mix of too many types of 'alien baddies' and 'predators'. Not to mention how the viewer is somewhat alienated by the unknown motives of the engineer/creator race of aliens – as well as the out of place lacklustre ending and suggested opening for a sequel that will probably never get made.
Having said all that; I hope this leads to a prolific spurt of sci-fi movies from Ridley Scott, and I thought the casting was excellent with standout performances from Noomi Rapace and Michael Fassbender.[/spoiler]

[Roger Godpleton]

My favourite Joker theory is that he's Hyper-Sane, constantly adapting to changing realities. I think that's Grant M's version.

[Frank]

My favourite Joker theory is that he's Hyper-Sane, constantly adapting to changing realities. I think that's Grant M's version.

Grant Morrison pinched the observation that schizophrenia is the natural condition of 20th century Western civilization- and it's the nominally sane who are truly delusional- from modernist and postmodernist critical theory. He also wanted his Joker in Arkham Asylum to wear a dress and fishnets, but DC widnae let him.

[HdE]

Judge Blake:

Very balanced summary of opinions there. Much the same as I thought.

[judgeblake]

thanks. I didn't realise I had such a well balanced opinion of the movie until I typed that lol - the movie was a good movie, but basically disappointing after all the hype and occasion surrounding it. I have to admit, I'm an intelligent movie-goer and usually have to end up explaining the twists in the plot to someone else, but Prometheus confused me in places!

[Richmond Clements]

It's confusing and the plot didn't make sense? How is it a good movie then..? Surely these are the most basic elements of cinematic storytelling, and this movie failed on both counts miserably!

[judgeblake]

It's confusing and the plot didn't make sense? How is it a good movie then..? Surely these are the most basic elements of cinematic storytelling, and this movie failed on both counts miserably!

well I still enjoyed the movie being a film geek and it being the first time Ridley Scott has entered the realms of sci-fi for a while - and I did like alot of the direction and aesthetic imagery. But I have to admit and concur that the more and more I think about the movie, the more terrible the script seems to have been in hindsight.