Should Dredd ever be killed off?

[Eric Plumrose]

A bit late with this, but . . .

And look whats happened in the past - the precedents arent looking good. The re-vamped Dan Dare in 2000ad, and then in the re-launched Eagle (wasnt he the "great-great-great-grandson of the original"?). People rightly saw these reincarnations as a sham, and lost interest. Same, to a degree, with the Rogue trooper/Friday debarcle.

The DAN DARE comparisons aren't really valid. The current readership is a lot older than wot 2000 AD was pitched at in the '70s. Dan was included mainly to garner some publicity and because, IIRC, Kelvin Gosnell was a fan. Save maybe for a few old Eagle Annuals stored in the loft, an eight year-old Squaxx in 1977 wouldn't have anything to compare a new DAN DARE to and so would be unaware of any "sham". Of those three revamps attempted by Tharg, only the prelude to the third version is any good with an amnesiac Dan helping a dying Mekon.

Again, it was a younger readership the relaunched EAGLE was aimed at but I would argue that Dan's great-great grandson was a success. Once Wagner departs as co-writer, the strip under Pat Mills soon becomes much closer in tone and style to the Frank Hampson version and it's basically this version that remains for the next four years until his bastardization as a Captain Scarlet clone.

[JOE SOAP]

The strip's been happily humming along for over a decade now doing ensemble cast stories with Dredd as the focal point, and there's no particular reason why he has to be out doing the more physical parts of the job personally for that setup to continue.  I think there's more character mileage in Dredd having to come to terms with a behind-the-scenes role than there is in a death story anyway.

Don't really see this as an option either, a semi-retired Dredd is a very unappealing prospect from a character promotion angle. At the end of the day Dredd always comes down to Joe cracking' heads at street-level, taking focus away from that won't work as a permanent feature. They're doing this to a certain measure at the moment but the lines are clearly drawn. If Dredd was a finite prospect it'd be interesting for a very short-term but not for the long forseeable. With Wagner Dredd is an authored piece and if Dredd was finite he'd be the one to define the end but once he leaves it becomes something else.

If there's a real push to see a decommissioning of Dredd, it'll be done as an alt-end ala "whatever happened to the lawman of tomorrow?" or a clear cut finish- which doesn't necessarily need to end in his death. I don't see a likelihood of these things happening either way.

[Frank]

what if someone (usually Hitler) got hold of the technology and decided to create an army of himself (iv)? That could leave not just Rico, but a host of Fargo clones on the streets of MC1; Dredds, anyone?

He all ready did that with the Judda and a little bit with Sinfield.

The principle's there in the stories and characters we've both cited, but March doesn't amount to an army and The Judda never got their act together enough to land more than three sets of boots on the slab of MC1. I've got a hankering for 24 weeks of Dan Tanna-style close quarter, running combat between large numbers of well resourced, highly trained troops (i).

To get back on topic, and accept Tordelback's exclusive focus on events on the page; I don't particularly want to see Dredd die anymore than Rebellion do, although if Wagner wrote the kind of Dredd dies to save his city scene that some would like to see, that'd have an undoubted mythic power (ii).

BPP's entirely correct that nothing is off limits as far as stookie treatment, Bennet Beeny-style Cranial Screw-top Brain Entry, or bug-eyed alien necromancers is concerned. I don't think any of those would provide particularly satisfying narrative solutions though.

Having Dredd alive, but somewhere off page, while the supporting cast carry on the story still seems like the best solution to me.



(i) Sections of The Apocalypse War aside, Dredd's invasion stories tend to involve a small group of motivated individuals (Judda, Apocalypse Squad, Dark Judges) taking on a larger group (Judges, Sovs, Zombies). Doomsday played with that formula, but not entirely successfully.

(ii) Alan Moore's introduction to The Dark Knight Returns mentions the importance of a good death scene in mythology.

[JOE SOAP]

He all ready did that with the Judda and a little bit with Sinfield.

The principle's there in the stories and characters we've both cited, but March doesn't amount to an army and The Judda never got their act together enough to land more than three sets of boots on the slab of MC1. I've got a hankering for 24 weeks of Dan Tanna-style close quarter, running combat between large numbers of well resourced, highly trained troops.
[/quote]


That sounds like the original draft of William Wisher's script for the '95 film.

[JOE SOAP]

Having Dredd alive, but somewhere off page, while the supporting cast carry on the story still seems like the best solution to me.

Don't think it would work long-term, it's not something Rebellion would want either, I'd say.

[JOE SOAP]

Another option would be to create a separate storyline in an undisclosed future time, when Dredd is a lot older - with no need to know how old or what age-treatments he's had, if any- and have him end his years there. Any preceeding storylines can choose to ignore it, incoporate, or build to it once Wagner chooses to retire. It would solve the dilemma of needing Wagner write Dredd's-End before he retires but also bypasses disruption to the current Mega-City present.


It could be done in a mythic and distilled Dreddian way without being hampered by too many specifics. If succeeding writers decided to divert it with separate time-lines/divergences that's for future editorial to decide but doesn't need to be answered for a long time.

[Frank]

Another option would be to create a separate storyline in an undisclosed future time, when Dredd is a lot older - with no need to know how old or what age-treatments he's had, if any- and have him end his years there. Any preceeding storylines can choose to ignore it, incoporate, or build to it once Wagner chooses to retire. It would solve the dilemma of needing Wagner write Dredd's-End before he retires but also bypasses disruption to the current Mega-City present.

Great idea. John Wagner should write that story now, Carlos should draw it now, then they should put it in a locked drawer until there are no more continuing Dredd stories being published.

As Strontium Dog has proved (or did prove, then decided it had changed its mind) it's perfectly possible to read and enjoy stories involving characters whose means of death are known to the reader. It does affect your reading of both the death scene and the continuing stories though. Alan Grant and Colin MacNeil created a beautiful, pefectly realised death for Alpha, and the negation of that story's only just tempered by my delight at seeing Carlos back drawing those characters.

Seeing other writers create new adventures for Dredd once Wagner had definitively killed him would inspire oddly conflicted emotions in me.

[Spikes]

what if someone (usually Hitler) got hold of the technology and decided to create an army of himself

An army lacking in bollocks? p'eh!

but the question remains: what would be the best case resolution to the ageing/death problem from a story point of view, leaving aside 'real world' concerns. 

Is the whole Re-Juve/body swapping/tech thing so bad?
Its a cop out to a degree, but we'll still have Joe, and it can still play out in real time. If Dredd isnt killed /sent off, its the least messy option by a mile.

A bit late with this, but . . .

And look whats happened in the past - the precedents arent looking good. The re-vamped Dan Dare in 2000ad, and then in the re-launched Eagle (wasnt he the "great-great-great-grandson of the original"?). People rightly saw these reincarnations as a sham, and lost interest. Same, to a degree, with the Rogue trooper/Friday debarcle.

The DAN DARE comparisons aren't really valid.

Well, perhaps i wasnt being clear in my original post - but the point i was making was, is that when attempting something like this, it usually ends up a mess. If the options facing Dredd is to either kill him off and/or replace him with somebody new then the reasoning behind the Dan Dare comparison, and the whole re-invention schtick is that they mucked it up, and to be fair, Dare isnt the only example -  my concern was, would Dredd suffer the same fate?

The current readership is a lot older than wot 2000 AD was pitched at in the '70s. Dan was included mainly to garner some publicity and because, IIRC, Kelvin Gosnell was a fan. Save maybe for a few old Eagle Annuals stored in the loft, an eight year-old Squaxx in 1977 wouldn't have anything to compare a new DAN DARE to and so would be unaware of any "sham". Of those three revamps attempted by Tharg, only the prelude to the third version is any good with an amnesiac Dan helping a dying Mekon.

Again, it was a younger readership the relaunched EAGLE was aimed at but I would argue that Dan's great-great grandson was a success. Once Wagner departs as co-writer, the strip under Pat Mills soon becomes much closer in tone and style to the Frank Hampson version and it's basically this version that remains for the next four years until his bastardization as a Captain Scarlet clone.

Both 2000ad and the new Eagle, at their launches, made capital out of the fact that they would feature Dan Dare, so at some level they was aiming at an group of potential readers that did remember Dan Dare. I, as a 9 year old was quite aware of Dan Dare, and had grown up, albeit 2nd hand, reading the old comics,annuals etc. And im sure older people than me read 2000ad.

[Frank]

He all ready did that with the Judda and a little bit with Sinfield.

The principle's there in the stories and characters we've both cited, but March doesn't amount to an army and The Judda never got their act together enough to land more than three sets of boots on the slab of MC1. I've got a hankering for 24 weeks of Dan Tanna-style close quarter, running combat between large numbers of well resourced, highly trained troops.

That sounds like the original draft of William Wisher's script for the '95 film.

I'll get my coat.

[JOE SOAP]

Another option would be to create a separate storyline in an undisclosed future time, when Dredd is a lot older - with no need to know how old or what age-treatments he's had, if any- and have him end his years there. Any preceeding storylines can choose to ignore it, incoporate, or build to it once Wagner chooses to retire. It would solve the dilemma of needing Wagner write Dredd's-End before he retires but also bypasses disruption to the current Mega-City present.

Great idea. John Wagner should write that story now, Carlos should draw it now, then they should put it in a locked drawer until there are no more continuing Dredd stories being published.

It could be published anytime since it would be out of strict linear continuity.

[JOE SOAP]

Is the whole Re-Juve/body swapping/tech thing so bad?
Its a cop out to a degree, but we'll still have Joe, and it can still play out in real time. If Dredd isnt killed /sent off, its the least messy option by a mile.

It's a bit obvious and Wagner has always done the opposite to that, giving us what we least expect. There's also a bit of a fan's sense of let the original author finish off his creation rather than someone else which - due to the unique real-time aspect to Dredd- I think is the real impulse to find the solution to the problem.

[BPP]

It's a bit obvious and Wagner has always done the opposite to that, giving us what we least expect. There's also a bit of a fan's sense of let the original author finish off his creation rather than someone else which - due to the unique real-time aspect to Dredd- I think is the real impulse to find the solution to the problem.

GREETINGS EARTHLETS. WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL ISSUE OF 2000AD WHERE THE WAGNER DROID GETS TO DO WHAT HE WANTS TO END DREDD.

MEANWHILE JOE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK IN THE GRENNIE 'THERES SOMETHING IN THE PARK (III)' AND WE'LL KEEP THE COMIC GOING AS WE HAVE THE PAST 30 YEARS.

[Frank]

There's also a bit of a fan's sense of let the original author finish off his creation rather than someone else

[JOE SOAP]

It's a bit obvious and Wagner has always done the opposite to that, giving us what we least expect. There's also a bit of a fan's sense of let the original author finish off his creation rather than someone else which - due to the unique real-time aspect to Dredd- I think is the real impulse to find the solution to the problem.

GREETINGS EARTHLETS. WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL ISSUE OF 2000AD WHERE THE WAGNER DROID GETS TO DO WHAT HE WANTS TO END DREDD.

MEANWHILE JOE WILL BE BACK NEXT WEEK IN THE GRENNIE 'THERES SOMETHING IN THE PARK (III)' AND WE'LL KEEP THE COMIC GOING AS WE HAVE THE PAST 30 YEARS.

If you read my posts you'll see I've all ready made that point as it has been made hundreds of time on this forum by us all so it's nothing we don't realise. We're in the realm of supposition here. Caps are so uncouth. There are others ways to solve this problem as I suggested without destroying the current strip or being obvious.

[Spikes]

There's also a bit of a fan's sense of let the original author finish off his creation rather than someone else

Whats Pink Floyd got to do with any of this?