Another step closer to MC1

[Queen Firey-Bou]

now i am very very scared of this well lit crime free world, I'll stick to the wild west & rocket launchers on RS escorts, dark places, pub brawls & a community that cares about each other.

[Devons Daddy]

to make you smile
the link cyber punk goes to goes to singapore.
comes up as
this site is banned under the seciton what ever of the information act of singapre 1998

i rest my case ladies and gentle men of the jury. i take its the famous
disney with the death penalty one from the new york times. thats a famously banned one.
or something of that nature.

[Bolt-01]

Well guessed DD. I will read that later, seems like an interesting place over there, man.

rotts

[Quirkafleeg]

Yes you guessed correct DD

You don't live in Judge Dredd, you live in Big Brother pal, ++notgood

[Buddy]

Actually DD sone of that quite appeals to me.

The police here are far too lenient..

I live in Northern Ireland and the police here are far, far, far too lenient.. I think they should have more power to crack heads, everyone knows who is doing what but the pathetic legal system allows them to continue with the intimidation, rackateering, kneecapping, and general pain in the ass to everyone who just wants to get on with things.

What we need is not so much a zero tolerence, more a 'takin no shit, sonny boy' police force.

If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear.

[Slippery PD]

"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. "

There are constant abuses of power in law.  One this week has just been brought to light, a mother who did nothing wrong but was imprisoned for 3 years, until acquited.  Vital evidence withdrawn or forgotten supressed by someone (either the police or the crime prosecution service).  The Birmingham 6 and a number of others are similar examples.  They had done nothing wrong.  In an enlightened society we have a reasonable goverment, but what happens if say the BNP are voted in??  (Not a big leap in logic given immigration problems and a possible war with Iraq), you suddenly have powers (without them even changing the law) taht allows them to intimidate opponents and reduce their opposition to nothing.  This is an extreme example but I think every one knows what Im saying.

This is part of what Wagner warns us about in Dredd.  The Judges may crack heads but they are trianed for years, almost brainwashed into being the perfect judging machines.  Even then though there are numerous cases when "human nature" takes over from idealogy, corruption occurs, we all have something to fear.  

Fortunately our legal system, relies on a basic presumption that you havent committed a crime.  It is up to the police and the lawyers to prove that you have.  Any change in this is fundamentally wrong, in my opinion.

yer "serious" Slippo  

[Trout]

I'm with Slippo.

If a public agency is given a power, it will use it. That's a reasonable assumption to make.

Even with checks and balances like ombudsmen and pressure groups, mistakes are made by every public agency.

Therefore, if the UK government derogates from its - legally binding - obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, people will suffer.

I suspect proper enforcement of existing laws would solve many of the problems Umpty describes.

- Trout

[Quirkafleeg]

"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. "

yeah with the slips on that one...

And it's only just recently that they've decided to give some sort of help, councilling, finding somewhere to live etc to people who are let out of prison after being found not guilty...

[JimBob]

 Well it does but: it's always been a reportable offence, they haven't printed the ticket books yet, I can't imagine anyone will enforce it unless a litterer takes the piss, ie throwing ti at a coppers feet.
 

[Eric Plumrose]

IINM, certain high street retailers in this country won't now allow credit card purchases in selected branches unless a thumb print is taken.

[Generally Contrary]

"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. "

Then can I come look through all your stuff?  Why not - I'm just an average Joe without any power.

The police, on the other hand, have a lot of power.  And some of them are decidedly less than average with regard to compassion, fairness and respect for diversity.

[JimBob]

"compassion, fairness and respect for diversity"

 Believe it or not it's a pretty hard job under pretty trying conditions. Tell you what I'll turn up at your work and scream "C**t" at you for an hour, then I'll make you search a decomposing  body for i.d, then I'll send you to a fatal RTA and a violent domestic, then when your finished that I'll scream "Wanker " at you, and if at any time you look annoyed or lose composure I'll put in a complaint against you.
 During this time I'll complain if you drive too fast but equally complain if your not instantly at my door when I phone up. I'll complain if you give me a speeding ticket but also complain theres too many deaths in the road. But don't worry if you get killed on duty I'll write nice things about you in the paper. Which makes up for the rest of the time when all the worlds ills are your fault.
 

[Queen Firey-Bou]

Inverness uses the thumb print visa card thing...ha ha i hardly have any prints from excessive wear.

seriously ..Jim bob has points. Now i grew up as a pretty militant anarchist during thatcher years. (no i never did anything nasty cos i'm intrinsically somone who cares about stuff). so to us the pigs were the pigs, one of the most horrific sights to my young nieve idealistic anti-state eyes was my loved one being dragged away by the hair by too 'pigs'... but wait... what were they supposed to do? let a bunch of crusties invade the scottish office & sit on malcom rifkinds desk ? (woulda been good eh !)...loads of other stories like a pal with a police horse hoof print on back....real adventure days

But guess what , i grew up, i met police as people , i stopped being paranoid, The actual polis on the beat are jist doing a job, mosta them are really nice & really do just wanna to the right thing. One time i got my rights read to me, the chap felt so sorry for me he came back to my shop the next day & spent loads.

nahh don't hassal the rank & file, hassal the state, the fashist judges , the shark lawyers, the greedy politicians.

(tho the idea of a row of riot polis banging on shields still sends me into fight or flight terror! shudder !)

[Generally Contrary]

"compassion, fairness and respect for diversity"

My point wasn't; the police are a bunch of wankers.

But rather; the police are people just like me, you and that guy across the road.

And just like me, you and that guy across the road, we have prejudices, political beliefs, jelousies and who knows what else guiding our behaviour.  And, while it might be the case that the police may be less obnoxious, on the whole, than the average, 'me, you and that guy across the street', they have still been all too human on many, many occassions.  

This does not apply only to police, but to all people with power - whoever they are.  

And when you reply quoting the stress that your job places you under - I understand.  But you must see that giving some people more power under that kind of stress would not result in entirely responsible use of that power.

I have seen police officers goading young lads into a fight.  I have seen people being carted off to the police station and placed on police bail because of police frustration unconnected with the incident at hand.  I am from South Yorkshire - I know what the police can do at their worst - drafted in from outside during the miner's srike.

But I have also seen very compassionate police.  Twice I have worked as a civilian in police station, and seen likable, intelligent, just men and women who care about what they do and how they do it.  I have worked in reception on a council building that dealt with young offenders and community safety, and met police officers who are nothing but commendable.

But if you think more powers will breed more of the latter an less of the former then we can only disagree.  

[JimBob]

 Everyone is shaped by their experiences and the truth is any one policing an Urban area in the UK today is not going to be overly interested in being warm and fuzzy, we want to get the job done and hold things together. Its very easy to criticise but not only do we have to deal with the social problems that are so evident but we also have been abused by Governments since the mid-70s as an area of social expermentation. Democratically elected politicians were responsible for Poll tax, for the mine closures, for the vast majority of marches and protests we are involved in. They set the laws and more importantly they set the rules of engagement. Yuo don't like whats being done use your vote.

 The vast majority of Police today could get paid more elsewhere and have much better working conditions. We stay out of duty and loyalty to each other, under an ever increasing load of paper work, media abuse and erosion of any respect we were once held in.  
 Every one is an expert on Policing, every one knows better. If you haven't done the work you really can't understand the pressure of making hugely important decisions when dead on your feet knowing any mistake can lead to you being crucified, but also knowing you HAVE to make that decision.
 That may all sound overly cynical and defensive, but the fact is we cna never win all we can do is try and hold on.