Big Dave

[ted5536]

I have been reading and collecting a lot of 2000 AD lately and have only read a little bit of Big Dave a long time ago, I am wondering why this book is not collected? It seems weird that a book that features big name writers like Morrison and Millar does not have a collected edition.

[Frank]

I have been reading and collecting a lot of 2000 AD lately and have only read a little bit of Big Dave a long time ago, I am wondering why this book is not collected? It seems weird that a book that features big name writers like Morrison and Millar does not have a collected edition

Same reason none of Millar, Morrison and MacKenzie's other nineties 2000ad work has been reprinted:

http://comicsbeat.com/mad-mental-crazy-the-true-life-of-the-fabulous-zenith/

[ted5536]

Hmm interesting read thank you! I was hoping with Zenith release we might get a reprint of Big Dave but sounds like it is time to hunt down the Progs it was published in.

[IndigoPrime]

Zenith isn't creator-owned; Big Dave is. The only way we'd see a reprint is if Morrison and Rebellion came to some agreement, which doesn't seem terribly likely. (That said, I imagine Big Dave would be a risky collection, for all sorts of reasons.)

[Frank]

Zenith isn't creator-owned; Big Dave is

You sure? As far as I know, all the Summer Offensive strips were created under the same terms as Zenith, and it wasn't until the end of the nineties that Millar and Morrison decided to take their ... principled stand for creators' rights. 2000ad editorial were certainly under the impression Millar was a work for hire lackey when they handed script chores on Millar and Weston's Canon Fodder to Kek-W at the fag-end of the nineties, causing Coatbridge's favourite son to throw his toys out of the pram.

[Professor Bear]

If their logic is that they thought they owned the work they produced for 2000ad, I'm sort of curious if Millar and Morrison thought they owned their Judge Dredd or Rogue Trooper strips, too.

[Richmond Clements]

You sure?

Yes.

[hippynumber1]

Same reason none of Millar, Morrison and MacKenzie's other nineties 2000ad work has been reprinted:

Because it was mostly shite?

[JayzusB.Christ]

Same reason none of Millar, Morrison and MacKenzie's other nineties 2000ad work has been reprinted:

Because it was mostly shite?

Little bit harsh there.  Most of Morrison's Future Shocks were outstanding, and Zenith remains one of 2000ad's finest strips ever.
As for MacKenzie, there was Bradley and Luke Kirby.
And I'm even going to stand up for Mark Millar here:  His Dredds were shite, yeah, but he did some really, really good one-prog horror strips. There was the Terror Tale about the Lovecraft dark gods, for example, and the Amazing Dr Doctor. 

And, though I must have said it a hundred times on this forum, I liked Big Dave.

[Frank]

though I must have said it a hundred times on this forum, I liked Big Dave

Big Dave is one of the best strips ever to grace the pages of 2000ad, displaying all the satire and irreverence for authority/the establishment which the usual suspects always insist are the strengths of Tharg's magnificent organ. The gay bomb, the robot royals, zombie Bobby Charlton raised from the dead by Nelson Mandela's voodoo taking on a German eleven comprised of actual tin helmet wearing Waffen SS in a replay of the 1966 World Cup final ... all genius, genius stuff.

Well, series 1, 2, and 4 were genius - the third one, where Big Dave fights another guy on holiday in Marbella, seemed like a quickie rushed out to fill a holiday special and was pretty awful, lacking the wit, invention, and satirical intent that characterised the series. Diana and Fergie reimagined as Tracy and Sandra from The Fat Slags sums up the strip's appeal; Big Dave was basically an admission that the most culturally significant British comic since WWII was Viz.

[Leigh S]

You could argue that satire aimed down at the poorest is more bullying than satire..  aren't the petty ignorances of the unwashed hilarious - but then, we are having our cake and eating it as we are satirising the perception of the underclass rather than the underclass itself - it The Sun wot did it.  So for me it comes across like the work of smug sixth formers rather than anything that would epitomise Pat Mill's class war ethic

[hippynumber1]

Same reason none of Millar, Morrison and MacKenzie's other nineties 2000ad work has been reprinted:

Because it was mostly shite?

Little bit harsh there.  Most of Morrison's Future Shocks were outstanding, and Zenith remains one of 2000ad's finest strips ever.
As for MacKenzie, there was Bradley and Luke Kirby.
And I'm even going to stand up for Mark Millar here:  His Dredds were shite, yeah, but he did some really, really good one-prog horror strips. There was the Terror Tale about the Lovecraft dark gods, for example, and the Amazing Dr Doctor. 

And, though I must have said it a hundred times on this forum, I liked Big Dave.

The key was my use of 'mostly'! I'll agree with you on McKenzie, I even enjoyed Brigand Doom! Morrison's Zenith goes without saying and 'Candy and the Catchman' but the only thing, in my opinion, that Miller ever produced that was worth reading was 'Silo'.

Leigh S is spot on with Big Dave. That's exactly the vibe I got off most of the Morrison/Miller output - smug sixth formers!

[Frank]

You could argue that satire aimed down at the poorest is more bullying than satire..  aren't the petty ignorances of the unwashed hilarious - but then, we are having our cake and eating it as we are satirising the perception of the underclass rather than the underclass itself - it The Sun wot did it

If Dave himself is the target of the humour and disapproval of the strip, then Airplane is a searing condemnation of medical and aviation industry professionals. Humour or satire doesn't necessarily involve contempt or condemnation. Do you think the creators of Viz held the UK tabloid newspapers and comics they lampooned - or sexist men, or TV presenters, or feminists - in the same contempt you imagine Millar and Morrison directed towards the British white working class?

Big Dave critiques the world view expressed by tabloid culture with the same good humour, familiarity, sneaking regard, and by similar means as Russell Brand's hilarious deconstructions of The Sun's letters page - by imagining what it would be like if the views expressed bore any resemblance to reality, dramatizing what that reality would be like, pushing the logic which underpins it to its illogical extreme, and highlighting the absurdities which underpin that world view.

[hippynumber1]

But Sauchie also makes a valid arguement!

[Leigh S]

You could argue that satire aimed down at the poorest is more bullying than satire..  aren't the petty ignorances of the unwashed hilarious - but then, we are having our cake and eating it as we are satirising the perception of the underclass rather than the underclass itself - it The Sun wot did it

If Dave himself is the target of the humour and disapproval of the strip, then Airplane is a searing condemnation of medical and aviation industry professionals. Humour or satire doesn't necessarily involve contempt or condemnation. Do you think the creators of Viz held the UK tabloid newspapers and comics they lampooned - or sexist men, or TV presenters, or feminists - in the same contempt you imagine Millar and Morrison directed towards the British white working class?

Big Dave critiques the world view expressed by tabloid culture with the same good humour, familiarity, sneaking regard, and by similar means as Russell Brand's hilarious deconstructions of The Sun's letters page - by imagining what it would be like if the views expressed bore any resemblance to reality, dramatizing what that reality would be like, pushing the logic which underpins it to its illogical extreme, and highlighting the absurdities which underpin that world view.

I can see that, but contempt is ultimately where you are - the Sun letters page is written by real people, so their unreal beliefs are being mocked..but tehy are real beliefs, so there is a target and its an ill educated one. not a bad thing in itself, but as someone from the same kind of estate that Big Dave lives on, the views satirised by BD are the same the Sixth formers from the better side of Birmingham used as their blanket understanding of where I came from - I'm not sure mocking and dismissing the prejudices of a White working/underclass do much more than increase the divide.  The voice of the far right that appeals to Sun readers, the voice that tells them they are the real victims of prejudice.... I think that is stoked more than illuminated by something like Big Dave.  That may be a personal interpretation of it based on my own circumstances - certainly Russell Brand doesnt strike me as a Working Class Hero, but I don't really know a huge amount about him to be sure of that - again, he would definitely fit the sixth former bracket in my own prejudices!

I suppose it's that argument that you hear that runs "you wouldnt tell that joke about Jesus about Mohammed"... which is a stupid argument on many levels, but again feeds the root cause of a lot of that divide - Attacking a prvileged group is one thing - the white working class might not be the country's hardest done by, but they are far from privileged.  Some small section of that group may be bigoted and ill educated (and who is responsible for that ill education?) but if you want to satirize any group by the worst actions of their communities... I'm not saying there isnt a great idea in Big Dave.. but its a garbled one - Big Dave is not teh hero of a Sun strip - he is the benefit scrounger the Sun hates - the angle of the strip that is attacking the EMdia, that's fine, but it's is a blunt attack when the hero should be the strips villain.  If it had been a strip about IDS fighting the brave fight against Big Dave, fine... as it is, it reads more like those Sixth formers opinions of the place I was dragged up in.