Not sure if it's me or the prog...

[Smith]

A lot of good examples of hipster SF I cant stand.

What does this even mean? All great sci-fi is counter culture at its root. That's what made 2000 AD stand out in its classic era.

Counter-culture doesn't really exist these days.
These are just attempts at hipsterism.

[I, Cosh]

A lot of good examples of hipster SF I cant stand.

What does this even mean? All great sci-fi is counter culture at its root. That's what made 2000 AD stand out in its classic era.

Counter-culture doesn't really exist these days.
These are just attempts at hipsterism.

I'd like to try and understand what you mean by this. Can you give an example of what makes something "hipster" or does it just mean stuff you don't like?

[Smith]

Weird for the sake of weird.See almost every movie-pitch Image produced.

[The Adventurer]

Counter-culture doesn't really exist these days.
These are just attempts at hipsterism.

Every generation has its counter culture. Today its Hipsters. Previously it was Punks. Before that Hippies, Beatniks, & Dandies. And any number of variations of people challenging the excepted norms of the times with their own spin and way of expressing themselves.

[TordelBack]

What should something be "weird for the sake of"?

Isn't the derogatory use of 'hipster' more generally applied to those who follow distinctive trends innovated by others? Aka, all of fashion or most of human culture?

[Smith]

Counter-culture doesn't really exist these days.
These are just attempts at hipsterism.

Every generation has its counter culture. Today its Hipsters. Previously it was Punks. Before that Hippies, Beatniks, & Dandies. And any number of variations of people challenging the excepted norms of the times with their own spin and way of expressing themselves.

Translation:I have no answer to that so Im just going to post an image macro in an attempt to somehow discredit you.Oh,Im so clever.
Wait,wait,wait...you are comparing the tumbler whiners to Punk?Really?Really?

What should something be "weird for the sake of"?

Isn't the derogatory use of 'hipster' more generally applied to those who follow distinctive trends innovated by others? Aka, all of fashion or most of human culture?

Yes,what the unclear part there?Im saying that lately,need for being weird outweighs trying to tell a good story.But thats probably just me.

[TordelBack]

Yes,what the unclear part there?Im saying that lately,need for being weird outweighs trying to tell a good story.

Ah, got you now. Still don't understand how hipsters (other than Molcher) come into this, or how 'now' in SF is any different from the past (say) 30 years in this respect. Or even 50 - look at Moorcock and the new wave guys!

Is it that 'hipsters' want to be be 'weird' in a less considered way than, for example,  'punks'? Cos if so, I don't think hipsters self-identify in the way that punks, mods, rockers, goths do/did.

[Smith]

This ended up being harder to put in words then I imagined.
Its just that I feel more and more accent is put on stories like Counterfit Girl.They are trying for hip and trippy but the actual story is done dozens of times before.
And yes,there was always something like The Dead or The Clown,but now I feel the whole prog is going for that style.

[The Legendary Shark]

There are only so many stories, Smith, some say as few as seven basic narratives (for example, the story of Gilgamesh is basically identical to any number of James Bond stories and Beowulf is virtually the same as Jaws), so the only things that can be changed are the characters and settings and, I suppose, the weirdness quotient. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you will never read a new story, only an old story told in a new way. When you recognise the story, I think, that means it hasn't been told in a unique enough fashion and not that the story form itself is old - all the stories are old. A cloak of weird is just one of the tricks writers use to dress up these ancient forms and sometimes, I agree, they can go too far - or not far enough.

Seeing the story is like seeing a boom mike in the shot, it pulls us out of the experience.

[Steven Denton]

It doesn't pull you out of my story about boom mikes

[The Legendary Shark]

[Frank]

I feel more and more accent is put on stories like Counterfit Girl.They are trying for hip and trippy ... there was always something like The Dead or The Clown,but now I feel the whole prog is going for that style.

That tension characterised the nineties - should Tharg try to reflect the trends of the wider industry (then Deadline, Vertigo, Viz) or double down on the robots and gruff antiheroes in a bid to hold onto the ten year olds and adults who wished they were still ten?

Deadworld, Kingdom and Defoe have a ratio of action to chat that would have found favour in any era, while Brink, Hope, and Indigo Prime allow Tharg's droids to hang with Image and Boom at the convention bar, instead of staying at home out of shame, like whoever edits Commando.

Of greater concern are strips that occupy a dull midpoint between those extremes; not enough action for the bog paper days, not enough ideas or character to fill John Smith's slot (fnar). A lot of strips - Brass Sun, The Alienist, and The Order*, for example - leave me feeling indifferent.


* Yes, I know The Order is packed full of incident, but none of the mad stuff that happens - or the characters it happens to - gain any purchase on my imagination. Lovely art, of course; all the stories mentioned above have lovely art.

[IndigoPrime]

But again, one person's great is another person's bleh. I'm skipping over Greysuit, because I just don't care any more, but some people reckon it's the best thing Mills has done in ages. Similarly, you cite Brass Sun as something that makes you feel indifferent, but I thought it was one of the best things the Prog had run in ages, and grabbed the hardback. The nature of the anthology, I suppose.

[Frank]

I'm skipping over Greysuit, because I just don't care any more, but some people reckon it's the best thing Mills has done in ages.

I suppose, like Savage, it doesn't suffer from the g...l...a...c...i...a...l pacing of the otherwise fantastic Brutannia Chronicles, but Mills covered this territory more entertainingly in Accident Man and the genre inflected passages of Third World War.

And yeah, everyone has their own screwy opinions. Tharg should mail a hard copy of this thread to management, along with a request for a pay rise.

[Smith]

I ended up sounding a lot more confrontational then I intended;when really...Im just not feeling it.All my fault,Im just burned out.
And yes,Brass Sun and Order crossed my mind earlier.
Im taking a bit of a break anyway.