Girls grow up to be women, boys grow up to be boys...

plastikman · 06 May, 2002, 04:03:25 AM

Do you think reading comics is for kids or should we grow up and read proper books?

I love comics (& am staggering and wheezing towards 30) but I'm not sure about the answer to the above - is it the easy accesibility of comics that gives them a poor reputation when compared to other art / entertainment forms?

plastikman.

paulvonscott · 06 May, 2002, 04:29:40 AM

Well it jusy comes down to snobbery at the higher levels. Tom Paulin on Late Review said about that corrigan book, that 'it was seeeemply awful, the colours were dreeeeadful' the feckmouthed, chair bound bollox. If he fell over, I'd kick him.

When the same progranm can seriously discuss the artistic merit of someone placing a cantaloupe on top of a bust of queen victoria, made of orange peel (personally I'd rather they just wrote their idea or any deeper meaning down on a bit of paper, let me read that and avoid the art).

If art in all it's many strange disguises is seen as acceptable why not comics? It's only a medium and mediums by their very nature are not bad in themselves (I exclude doris stokes and all those medium judge dredd t-shirts I bought when I was fifteen and can no longer wear).

But basically the problem comics has is 1. They are traditionally associated with children 2. Comics now must have ninety percent of their books aimed at the 20-30 year old male superhero market. It may be dark and grimy, it may be ironic, or an amusing pastiche of silver age comics, but to the avergae jo/e it's still a spandex clad feckwit jumping off a building.

Watchmen, V for Vendetta, all very noble, but they are superhero comics like spiderman and batman Don't believe me? Show them to a guy in the street and ask him.

Until comics make a -serious- effort to endear themselves to a wider audience (basically everyone) then they will remain stuck where they are, pleading for acceptability. People don't go to see movies because some guy in Time Out says they are now a mature and viable medium.

As to how to solve this problem, well it's easy (easy to say, harder and longer to do), but I don't get paid to direct my mekon like head* at such topics.

2000AD is a kids comic aimed at nostalgic young adults. I've staggered past thirty and now I've collapsed, a broke and bitter man. But at least 2000AD is looking up.

Cheers :)

Paul

*In that it's green, not big.

Thread Zero · 06 May, 2002, 06:06:50 AM

The best answer I can give is this:

If the story is told well it shouldn't matter that it's in a comics medium.

If all of Shakespeare's works were told in graphic form, would they have been dismissed?

Probably not.

"Cry havoc and let slip the cats of war!"

Oh Willy, you have such a way with words!

scojo bard

Buddy · 06 May, 2002, 06:45:17 AM

Comics are a story telling medium, just like movies or books. And just as with movies or books they can be targeted at particular age groups. This does not mean that a movie targeted at children cannot appeal to adults (James and the Giant Peach springs to mind but it may not be a good example, I'll try another... Willy Wonkas Chocolate Factory (I seem to have come over all 'Roald Dahl') or what about 'A Christmas Story'.

And just as with books or movies, comics can be good entertainment or bad entertainment. It depends on quality not format.

paulvonscott · 06 May, 2002, 07:20:45 AM

Yeah but look at the reality.

Live in the now!

Rambo · 06 May, 2002, 04:09:18 PM

Nothing immature about Button Man. Or Zenith. A superhero for an adult audience!

Ah! (*nostalgic sigh*) They don't make 'em like that anymore.

O Lucky Stevie! · 06 May, 2002, 05:20:24 PM

& some girls' mothers are bigger than other girls' mothers!

i've wet my knickers!
steven l'enfant terrible

SovietSam · 06 May, 2002, 05:42:08 PM

Take it from a kid...i dont think most people give a damn really.Just read,read,READ!!!
:0[

plastikman · 07 May, 2002, 01:02:15 AM

Interesting response - sometimes it's nice to delve a bit deeper than - "who's your favourite judge" etc (although I'm all for that!!) - I'm reading Jimmy Corrigan at the moment (recommended by a fellow poster) - missed it on late review - the artwork is fantastic and the story is BLEAK!

I always enjoy laughing at Tom Paulin who can't bare to share the same opinion as any of the other guests - surely he's doing it on purpose!!

PS Did you know there is a band called tompaulin.

plastikman

paulvonscott · 07 May, 2002, 02:45:21 AM

Hiya Plastikman

I suspect most people aren't really bothered as long as they have their weekly Judge Dredd. as the response show! But I like subjects I can get drunk and wrangle over. Comics are the literary equivelant of Leprosy, frankly people enjoy being part of a cultish minority and I think may actually resent the idea of not having this special medium to theirselves.

I actually quite like Tom Paulin for his enretainment value alone. Someone recently said that hejust watcheds to see what everyone thinks then makes his stance.

I often forget to watch but when I do it's great stuff.

Anyway cheers for a couple of great topics last night. makes a change from fluff.

Cheers

Paul :)

p.s. Does anyone have a spare few millions of pounds I could have to lose in a boardgame company?

Mudcrab · 07 May, 2002, 04:25:57 PM

Dunno about anyone else, but I read more books than comics anyway. Most peoples attitudes towards comics are only because when they think comics they think. 'Oh, The Beano and stuff like that.' Or Oor Wullie if they read the Sunday Post!

I've never heard a good argument as to why I shouldn't read 2000ad

paulvonscott · 07 May, 2002, 04:41:57 PM

Aye the broons and the like. Half enjoyed them, half utterly depressed by it. Read the odd Sunday post as a lad when it came down from jockland. Obviously being from the north east I was too busy cleaning my bowler hat and thinking up dastardly plans to read a lot.

Does anyone down south remember reading the broons and oor wullie as a lad, or did they just get as far as the north?

Anyway to answer the real point, no, general perception doesn't make any difference to most readers of 2000AD. Except that the current climate doesn't support any other comics. I'd really rather have a choice.

Mudcrab · 07 May, 2002, 05:23:08 PM

Yeah, I see you point with the Broons. It was a bit depressing. Although being from Aberdeen I think it showed us how lucky we were not to live in Glasgow :o)

'mon the Dons!!!!

PS Wonder if that'll earn me another 'name in the post title' thread. That's 3 I've had now, if you count 'Yo Doug' and 'Yo Doug 2' as separate. I must be catching up with Scojo!

paulvonscott · 07 May, 2002, 06:05:04 PM

It was bit depressing but it reminded me a lot of the north east. I alwasy remember the one where the guy was reading the serial in the paper with his fish and chips. Don't know why, it was good though.

Yeah, i've had me name in a few thread titles, PLEASE FOLKS, DON'T DO IT, it gives me a creepy crawly feeling.

Mudcrab · 07 May, 2002, 06:26:41 PM

I take it you mean the North East of England, as opposed to my North East. I remember starting an argument about that. It was broken up by a guy from Shetland proclaiming we were both wrong! It's all relative I guess.